Horomia; "It is very hard working with Maori"

If you can be bothered, read through these exchanges from today's question time. Listening to it was worse. Tau tackles Te Puni Kokiri but gets tripped up with trivia, Horomia eventually tells us what he really thinks and Tariana says the opposite of what she intended.

12. Hon TAU HENARE (National) to the Minister of Mâori Affairs: Does he stand by his translated statement in the House yesterday regarding Te Puni Kôkiri that it is not right to say here whether his ministry is “a waste of time for Mâori”; if so, where does he believe Te Puni Kôkiri should be held to account?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Mâori Affairs): Yes, I stand by the interpretation of my statement. It is not right to say here that Te Puni Kôkiri is a waste of time for Mâori. Te Puni Kôkiri is held to account in a number of ways to this House through the parliamentary process, which includes financial reviews.

Hon Tau Henare: Does he stand by his chief executive’s position that the laws of New Zealand, passed by this very Parliament and enforced by the courts, are not prescriptive but rather merely a set of guidelines one can follow if one wishes?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: Part of that I agree with, but certainly I believe that people in glasshouses should not throw stones; that certain members who should abide by the legislation that binds this House to good governance go out and leak documents from financial review committees.

Dave Hereora: What will be the specific focus of Te Puni Kôkiri over the next 12 months?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: Te Puni Kôkiri is on a roll. Certainly, I remember—[Interruption] Te Puni Kôkiri’s Mâori Business Facilitation Service—and I can tell that member that this Minister of Health is going to be here for a long time—won the Vero award for the best participation development between the private sector and the public sector, and we are going to do a lot more about that. We are about keeping Mâori out of prison, about putting more Mâori into jobs, and about helping Mâori achieve a higher level of education. That is what we will do.

Tariana Turia: Tçnâ koe, Madam Speaker; tçnâ tâtou te Whare. Further to the Minister’s answer yesterday, that monitoring reports were to be found in Te Puni Kôkiri’s annual report to Parliament, and in light of Te Puni Kôkiri’s 2005 annual report, which failed to provide any information on the output purchased monitoring of other State sector agency initiatives, can he tell this Parliament what monitoring reports Te Puni Kôkiri has produced and where they are?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: Te Puni Kôkiri takes its monitoring and liaising role very seriously. Te Puni Kôkiri is meeting its responsibilities under its legislation and it is doing that well—and a whole lot more. The Office of the Controller and Auditor-General found in its audit for the last financial year that there were no significant legislative breaches, and it is noted that the office gave Te Puni Kôkiri a good assessment.

Hon Tau Henare: Given the Minister’s answer to my supplementary question, which asked: “Does he stand by his chief executive’s position that the laws of New Zealand, passed by this very Parliament and enforced by the courts, are not prescriptive but rather merely a set of guidelines one can follow if one wishes?”, which part of that question does he agree with?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: I agree with most of it. But I want to talk about that former Minister when National had its time in Government, in the sense of the endless reports that that Government produced on negative statistics. We should look at what this Government is doing. It should not be about leaking and it should not be about members in this House who use it to ignore the rules.

Tariana Turia: Will he direct Te Puni Kôkiri to monitor the health of nearly 50 percent of Mâori children, some 93,423 children, who will benefit from the heavily promoted in-work payment because their parents are beneficiaries; or is the monitoring of the health and well-being of tangata whenua also a waste of time?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: It is a role that the Ministry of Health, steered by this Government, is managing very well. I assure the member that we have delivered reports, and supports, and those developments that we take very seriously. Working for Families is about that, and making sure that those parents and those children are being looked after is something this Government takes very, very seriously.

Tariana Turia: I seek leave to table the annual report of Te Puni Kôkiri, which clearly shows that no monitoring of other State agencies was done.

Leave granted.

Hon Phil Goff: Can the Minister confirm that during his time as Minister in charge of Te Puni Kôkiri, Mâori unemployment has halved and that the real waste of time for Mâori people was the Minister from 1996 to 1998, Tau Henare, who promised to halve unemployment among Mâori but instead increased it by 5 percent?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: Mâori unemployment has decreased by exactly 61 percent. Mâori enjoy being in work, and they enjoy being paid. That member set up three commissions, wasted a lot of money, and got nothing done for Mâori. We have done plenty for Mâori.

Hon Tau Henare: Is the Minister concerned that the recent financial review of his ministry found that it could not even answer questions about the delivery of its local level solutions programme; and when is he going to brief his ministry on what he is doing for his $180,000 per year?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: It is actually $195,000. I tell that member that we have moved on, and the issue is that we are going to focus on Mâori potential. We are going to use those good deeds out of local level solutions that my friend Tariana Turia was involved in, and we are making better use of them—more Mâori in jobs, more Mâori in high level education, and more Mâori getting into asset development. It is great stuff.

Hon Phil Goff: Did the Minister find in that financial review that one Tau Henare had yet paid back the $47 he owed the department as a beneficiary, which he said he would not be paying back?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: I am not too sure about that. But what did concern me is that that member flouted the laws and the rules of this great bastion of governance. He did that. He leeched us.

Hon Tau Henare: Does the Minister stand by his support of Mita Ririnui’s statement—support he gave in this House on 14 March this year—that advocacy of Mâori is tiresome; if so, what new career is he looking at now that he is tired of advocating for his people?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: I do not believe that my colleague made such a statement. But if we are honest, and we are in this party, it is stressful at times—[Interruption] Totally honest! Those members should ask Dr Sharples. They should ask Hone Harawira. It is very hard working with Mâori. Tariana Turia will tell members that. So I do not know what people he is talking about, because our people are trying at times. But me and Mita Ririnui love them, and we will do our best while we are in Government to make sure they go forward, not backwards.

Hon Tau Henare: I seek leave to table the speech of Mita Ririnui—the one where the Minister of Mâori Affairs actually supported him.

Madam SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.

Hon Tau Henare: I wish to make a personal statement relating to the accusations that the Hon Phil Goff just raised. I advise the House that some years ago, when this issue was raised, I did pay back the $47 to the then Minister of Social Welfare, Roger Sowry.

Hon Phil Goff: I seek leave to table an extract from the Sunday Star-Times of December 2000, in which Tau Henare said he would not be paying back a social welfare payment of $47, a debt he had incurred as a beneficiary 20 years ago.

Madam SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.

Hon Tau Henare: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Just a matter of clarification, I actually said that when I was in the House. I was not in the House in 2000.

Ron Mark: Does the Minister believe that the role played by Te Puni Kôkiri in promoting the ahu whenua awards and promoting Mâori excellence in farming such as that showcased in Rotorua last Friday evening is work of value, and what feedback did Te Puni Kôkiri receive from AgResearch, Federated Farmers, Dairy InSight, and the other key players in the agricultural industry in respect of Mâori farming and Mâori development?

Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA: It was all positive, and Te Puni Kôkiri has been involved in it. The big companies and the industry training organisations were there and they reaffirmed the 1,375 Mâori who are working in the agricultural industry training organisations and whom we will move on, and up, and into employment.

Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam SPEAKER: This is not in the guise of a supplementary question, I hope, Mr Brownlee.

Gerry Brownlee: No, it is not. I am extremely worried by the revelation in the House today that the Hon Parekura Horomia is getting a salary of $195,000. I am wondering whether we can seek leave to have him explain whether perhaps that is his salary, while other Ministers’ salaries are $216,000?

Madam SPEAKER: That is not a point of order; nor was it a supplementary question.

ENDS