Do the KCs believe in democracy
38 minutes ago
Friday, February 13, 2009
Cop-convenient DNA database one step closer
Last night the Criminal Investigations (Bodily Samples) Amendment Bill passed its first reading supported by all but the Greens and the Maori Party. TV3 reports the voting was 108 - 13 (one missing). I am still hoping that ACT (and Labour for numbers) will not support this bill further down the line. It is entirely at odds with ACT's claims to classical liberalism. It is an extension of the powers of the state against the rights of the individual. All sorts of excuses can be made about the rights of the majority or existing contraventions of individual rights making this development acceptable, even ho-hum, but I am sticking to basics.
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6 comments:
ACT is going down that track I'm afraid, with David leading the way. You previously deferred judgement on matters of law and order on the grounds that he would know better than you!
I hear someone spoke out at the Hui too along the lines you're arguing now and they got the stomp.
It's totally un-libertarian. But the law and order juggernaught is well on its way now. Not going to be easy to stop'im.
I suggest that instead of debating how a DNA database is not compliant with libertarian views of the role of the state, a debate should be had on how such a thing can be organized in a manner that is acceptable from the libertarian perspective. After all, if one accepts that proper social conduct (even from a perspective of civil liberty and individual rights) requires identification and disclosure of relevant details to those one engages with in social conduct, I don't see that a DNA database that would include EVERYBODY and is accessible to EVERYBODY would breach libertarian principals. I would like to be educated on this.
I'm generally a "just hang the bastards!" kind of thinker when it comes to law and order, but I must admit this idea makes me real queasy. I hope you keep writing about it, maybe it'll get the herd's attention at some point.
Anon, I am OK with DNA sampling of those convicted of crimes that are a violation of another person or their property. They forfeit rights. And if you want to offer your DNA to that database, go ahead.
The only time I have heard an argument advanced for such a database is from father's who want to be able to confirm their paternity as of right. You know how we got to that sad state of affairs? The DPB/ Child Support finger-a-father industry.
Every piece of state intervention creates the need for more. Wind it down, not up.
Who was it Rick?
Lindsay,
this is one of the few times I disagree and agree.
I think if you are arrested your dna should be taken like fingerprints, then added to the database.
If you are found not guilty then those results should be wiped from the system.
I believe this is the process with fingerprints and it should be the same case with DNA.
Clearly when we look at the number of crimes including rape (which is the ultimate violation of a person)that have been solved by the use of DNA there is a good reason to sample. Indeed in a few cases the answer has come well after the crime when the person has committed another and then been sampled. e.g. Mikus
Because the worlds population is growing daily (e.g. year 1900 about 1 billion, year 2000 5.2 billion) there is an increasing need to develop a identification format. Finger prints sufficed for a long time but were not infallible but did have the advantage that anyone arrested was finger printed. The road block up till 15 years ago was the volume of data and the matching process. If the time was spent then with luck a suspect could be identified.That changed with computers but so did the crime scene. Publicity through TV series and the ready availability of hand protection in the form of gloves negated finger printing volumes.
DNA can be collected and processed from any part of the human and therefore has the potential to create better outcomes for society.
The argument in my view is not about the necessity, indeed I would make it mandatory at birth,(and this will come about all over the world because of terrorism), but about the safe management of the DNA base.
Fighting the formation of the base will be a lost cause eventually so lets concentrate on having it managed, not by the police nor by Govt. but by an independent authority with clear rules of engagement.
p.s. Its only a matter of time before scientists develop a DNA reader that will scan a person and read off the DNA as we read the grocery worlds bar codes. They are exactly the same form of identification, one man made, one man given.
Don't think so then remember that Jules Verne wrote stories about Nuclear submarines in the early 19th century.
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