Thursday, June 20, 2013

Results from "The Vote"

Rather than try and summarise last night's show I'm simply cutting and pasting their press release:

Is the Big Problem Facing Kiwi Kids Poverty Or Parenting? Kiwis Say Parenting the Key Factor on Tv3’s the Vote

Child poverty has become a major issue for New Zealanders, but are are our kids suffering because of a lack of money or a lack of good parenting?

Tonight Kiwis voted Yes to the moot ‘Our kids: The problem’s not poverty, it’s parenting’ during national debate programme The Vote, which screened tonight on TV3.

Guyon Espiner and the Affirmative team were declared the winners of the debate at the end of the hour-long show with the votes tallied at 63% YES, 37% NO.

The arguments for:
• As a community we have to support families. I think we should be assessing how they’re getting their entitlement they’re entitled to and where is that money going because the problem is, for some families, the money comes straight in, it maybe goes to the relatives in the islands, it maybe goes to the loan shark, it maybe goes to the pokie machines, it maybe goes to whatever, but it’s not been prioritised and I think job description 101 for parents is a roof, shelter for your kids and food for your kids. – Bob McCoskrie

• I was raised in a single parent home and proudly to say by a man not a woman. My mother was a runaway mum; she only raised one of her 11 children. I know child abuse, I know lots of things but I had the most amazing father. I did not believe for one minute that I would not be a good mother. I actually think I’m a sensational mother and I’m an amazing grandmother to ten grandchildren. - Hannah Tamaki

• [Feeding children a bowl of cornflakes for breakfast costs] something like 37 cents per serve. And you know it is pathetic to say that families can’t do that. If their children are their first priority, they’re going to spend that 37 cents a day and put that food in their belly. – Christine Rankin

• I’d like to say that there are so many wonderful parents who have money and there amazing amount of parents who don’t have money. It’s about the love that you put into your children. - Hannah Tamaki

• Well why not help families budget? Instead of giving them fish, teach them how to fish. - Bob McCoskrie

The arguments against:
• I’ve worked for a long time in the business, I’ve met some hard, hard women and I’ve met a few women I’d like to put my boot firmly up their jacksie in terms of what they’re not doing. What I’ve never met and I mean, never, I’ve never met a woman who did not want to deliver better to her children than that which she has experienced and the conversation we’re having is belittling those women. - Celia Lashlie

• Where I come from I see kids being raised in cars, in vans, and some of my whanau here from Destiny know because they’ve come from those same places. I know this to be true, I see kids coming to school that are angry because other kids have got kai. I know kids who rummage through the rubbish on the way to school to get something to eat. You know this is not what we call a decent society. – Hone Harawira

• Look I’m a paediatrician, I work in child protection, I see kids who have got terrible behaviour and there are some parents who really struggle and don’t do a great job but more often, what I see is parents whose income is just too low and their outgoings, particularly on the cost of housing, are just too high. – Russell Wills

• What we need to understand, the real issue for us here tonight is that if we keep saying it’s bad parenting, it allows us to sanctimoniously pat ourselves on the back and say that’s nothing to do with us and it’s everything to do with us because they’re our children. - Celia Lashlie

• The fact of the matter is, that in stable society where people have jobs, people have homes to live in and children are getting something to eat you don’t get the level of family breakdown. You don’t get the level of family violence that you’re referring to. You’ve got it back to front. Poverty leads to family violence. Not the other way around. - Hone Harawira


Kiwiwit said...

I didn't watch the debate and I suppose it's gratifying to see the vote in favour of parental responsibility but I think this sort of facile TV debate (which TV3 seems to excel at) is just so dumb and not helpful to anyone.

Anonymous said...

I am a professed leftie.
But physically and sexually abusing your own children because of lack of money, is BAD PARENTING.
A LOT of what goes into good parenting, doesn't cost money.
Yes, money makes things a HELL of a lot easier, but it doesn't mean that good parenting can't be done on a small budget.
I am also an ardent supporter of the Nordic System, ALL kids get breakfast and lunch at school, AND medical/ dental.
Those countries are world leaders education wise.

Anonymous said...

I would really like to know how many people took part in the vote.

I know they say it trended first on twitter, but the robustness of the result does depend on whether they got, 10, 100, 1000 or 10,000 votes in.

So why don't they release the number.

Brendan said...

Personal dysfunction often results in both poverty and poor parenting. By the panels own definition there are tens of thousands of financially poor parent(s) in New Zealand who love their children, feed and clothe them every day, and never abuse them.

How do those promoting the 'poverty causes dysfunction causes violence' narrative explain that?

Sure, money makes some things in life a whole lot easier, but I don't think parenting is one of them.

Psycho Milt said...

The "arguments" for and against provided in the press release mostly demonstrate a woeful failure to understand the meaning of the word "argument."

Anonymous said...

A LOT of what goes into good parenting, doesn't cost money.

The very first rule of good parenting is don't have kids that you can't afford

In fact, that's really the only rule. everything else follows from that.

there are tens of thousands of financially poor parent(s) in New Zealand who love their children, feed and clothe them every day, and never abuse them.

that's why this is factually not true. If you love your children you'll make absolutely sure you can feed, clothe, educate, arrange healthcare, and arrange superannuation for yourself and for them out of your own pocket and you wont have kids you can't afford.

But there are millions of parents in NZ who don't do this. Some peasant in a hovel in the middle ages with 15 kids living in mud and animal shit clearly didn't "love" their kids and couldn't be a good parent in any sense of the word. Well a bludger or even a non-nett taxpayer family in NZ today is really in exactly the same situation as a peasant in a hovel -
the only difference is that the nett-tax paying few are paying for everything for them and their kids.