Wednesday, March 16, 2011

We should be grateful

A comment came in overnight. It'll get no attention if I publish it at the post it responds to, When the DPB pays more than the average female wage and one would expect the author wants her thoughts noted.

goodkiwimum has left a new comment on your post "When DPB pays more than the average female worker...":

how dare you. you are the exact reason women and children grovel on in this country. one day lady you will be old and need my kids taxes to pay your effing "welfare". i expect this rubbish from men, not from women and especially not from mothers. if you are griping about wages, then gripe about wages. why will solo parents always be bandied about like the banner for misdeeds in this country. the dpb annually costs this country 2.9B, out of a total social welfare budget of 21B, where does the other 85% go, i dont effing care, over one hundered thousand families are looked after on that meagre portion of welfare, less than 10%of our adult population caring for the next generation, supporting your future. Meanwhile 122 mp's languish around doing little to improve our country, selling it off in fact and squabbling all day in some foolish kangaroo court, soaking up over 16M in wages alone. let alone expenses...oh and please dont get me started on all the self employed people who ritually screw their taxable income down to under half of what they should declare due to lax income tax laws for the privelaged and this is not costing us apparently. so yeah, you just keep on picking on women and children, we've done it for thousands of years, why stop now, we're just getting so bloody good at it now...
http://werewolf.co.nz/2011/02/ten-myths-about-welfare/


And I've just discovered a second comment in my junk tray;

oh yes and I quote "Moreover, other forms of unacceptable behaviour leave benefit fraud far behind in the dust without attracting the same negative stereotypes. The major foreign owned banks for instance finally agreed in late 2009 – and only after being pursued at great expense through the courts by the IRD – to cough up $2.2 billion of what they owed in unpaid taxes. Meaning : the settlement figure GREATER than the total amount lost in benefit fraud last year" all you people need to get over welfare and dig out the people who are really ripping this country off

34 comments:

Oswald Bastable said...

About what you would expect from a woman who cannot find- and then keep- a decent man.

Anonymous said...

She appears to have invested a lot of energy in her comments. It is to be regretted that she doesn't get a job and put an equal effort into that. She'd then be a calculable asset.

Faversham

Anonymous said...

No she wouldn't. Someone like that could only get a job working in the bureaucracy.

Which is much the same as her right to live off the work of others.

MacDoctor said...

Sigh. I am not so much concerned about welfare payments for this woman as I am for the fact that, whatever we paid for her education, it was a complete waste of money.

goodkiwimum said...

Lol, its such a pity people can only respond to facts and decent arguements with ad hominem responses. not one of those comments had any response to what i had said, only denigrations to my character... which i think goes a long way to proving my point... bullying, is all it amounts to, picking on people smaller and weaker than you, which is all befefit bashing amounts to in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

God you talk crap good kiwi mum, how about getting off your butt and actually supporting yourself instead of expecting the taxpayer subsidise your lifestyle. The DPB was meant to be a support whilst people got their life back togther not a permanent existence. The problem with people such as yourselves ou think that this is an entitlement. WRONG!!! to gain an entitlement you first have to contribute to the coffers and the breeding of children is not a contribution. If you took some responsibility and bred when you could afford it then we would not have this burden of 2.9B to the national debt. Most of the elderly who are now on pensions actually worked, if you know what that means, and paid their taxes. The pension is society's pay back to them. I suggest you stop your bitching get on with life without expecting everyone else to come to pay for your chosen lifestyle.

Right_Wing_Dad said...

It's amazing that someone thinks it is appropriate to get paid more than the average wage without actually working. Even the most ardent right winger is compassionate enough to help those that are truly in need (like invalids, disabled etc). The real shame is that the welfare system encompasses so much of the population (working parents, unemployed parents who chose to have more and more children, sickness beneficiary fraudsters) that those that really need it don't get the actual help they require.

goodkiwimum said...

yet again you all fail to respond to the valid points made about other people "taking" tax payer money. again you criticise and insult me based on your assumptions about me, instead of trying to have reasonable debate about the issues. did i say i was on the DPB? this attitude reflects very well the kind of attitude we are dealing with in this country, where rich white men continuously defraud the tax payer billions of dollars and the poor and the young get treated like crap. like i said, if you take issue with low wages, fight that battle instead of looking further down the food chain for someone to pick on. and just so you know, most solo mothers i know were tax paying citizens in the work force much longer than they were beneficiaries...

FF said...

GKM , you know it's a feedback loop don't you?
As long as more and more money is squandered on welfare, then there will be more workers and employers unwilling to trust the gummint with their taxes. Hence tax avoidance.

As an evil, white, male, fascist small business owner, once I have paid holiday pay, stat hol pay,sick pay, bereavement leave, acc, employer kiwi-save contributions, and the occasional bonus to my 3 employees, naturally I am reluctant to throw any more money at the govt than I legally have to.

goodkiwimum said...

Thank you FF, the only response and comment that has not insulted me or presumed anything about me and has actually said something that warrants an answer.

I understand your frustration about being a self employed business owner, I was one once, and sometimes it hardly seems worth it for all the paperwork and endless bills. So attack that, why do the government make it so hard.

Ultimately approx 110,000 families are being supported by our govt, before the recession it was more like 70,000. Im happy for my tax money to be supporting them. Yes there is a small % of these people who will rip of the system, but these people are the ones who would be dishonest anyway, not just because they are a beneficiary.

I think you will find most parents recieving a benefit, are hardworking honest people who never thought they would end up this way and have worked hard most of their life. Anyone who thoght raising kids would be a "way out" of having to work would soon realise their mistake. Its no cake walk.

All I am trying to point out is that a lot of our tax revenue is wasted, spent on stuff we wouldnt want it to be spent on, a tiny proportion is spent on families, which I beleive is a noble cause.

It's been the fashion to attck solo parent families for bringing this country to its knees and I think thats totally rediculous.

I responded Lindasy's comment that its not fair that some incomes are lower than dpb rates. I agree, but lets get wages higher. It's disgusting how the poverty is growing in this country, it's also disgusting to blame minority groups who are just trying to get along. It shows how little people value raising children as an actual job, especially for one person to do alone.

Anonymous said...

Even the most ardent right winger is compassionate enough to help those that are truly in need

Wrong. Many "rightwingers" - i.e. mainstream productive Kiwis - are fed up to the back teeth with bludgers of all sorts. Many many more Kiwis are absolutely fed up with the government taking huge amounts of taxes and recycling it to bludgers in the name of "compassion"

We're borrowing $15Bn a year. The entire welfare system costs $12Bn. Super. education, health cost roughly another $12 each. that's a huge amount.

There. Is. Simply. No. Money. For. Any. Of. It.

the only response and comment that has not insulted me

That's because many many other "insulting" comments wouldn't have got past the rule about profanity and threatening physical violence to children.

Im happy for my tax money to be supporting them

Most mainstream productive kiwis are not. In fact we're really really really unhappy. Besides, bludgers, bennies civil servants wffers etc don't pay any tax

a tiny proportion [of tax revenues] is spent on families, which I beleive is a noble cause.

Nope. welfare, super, health, education take up pretty much all of the governments tax revenue, plus the $15Bn we're borrowing every year.

ministries? mps? the entire "bureaucracy" - less than 4Bn. Cops: 3Bn. The Army; civil defence, roads, railways, and all govt business cost another 12Bn but bring in about nearly as much in charges etc.
So basically all taxes are spent on welfare for bludgers of one kind or another

but lets get wages higher

How do we do that? Kiwis simply aren't worth paying any more than they are now - in fact, most are worth less. Don't you get it: a Kiwi worker is worth 2/3rds of an Aussie. You may not like it but its the fact.
So, if we didn't have to spend all tax revenues on welfare then we could cut taxes: and that certainly would raise after-tax wages!

FF said...

GKM-Yes of course we should have safety nets for people who fall on hard times,
That is the original premise of the social welfare system.
But do you really think our present system is sustainable?


Our standard of living did not just fall out of the sky, it was a long slow process of evolution.
And actually not as slow as we think, try some essential reading as to how we got out of poverty:
” The 10,000 Year Explosion” and “A Farewell to Alms”.

This has pretty much been reversed in a couple of generations through welfarism and the worst aspects of feminism.


NZ does not have poverty, it has relative poverty.

Poverty is humanity’s default setting. No mysteries there.
No need for the universities to study it.
Why do we keep buying more of it?

Poverty of thought and ideas and motivation is what is holding the country back.

More mysterious and interesting is how people become entrepreneurs, and think their way out of poverty.
Let’s talk about that more often, and let’s create the conditions where it is allowed to flourish.

goodkiwimum said...

@anon 10:17

Well I guess that at the end of the day it depends on what you value and where your priorities lie. I believe we have a responsibility to eachother. If my neighbour needed help, I would respond with help.

I'm not into this "me, me, me, I, I, I" philosophy that is bred into us now. Who decides which contribution to society is more important than another. Is education and health an investment or a waste? Are new BMW's for MP's an investment or a waste. Is money the god here, has it replaced good will and compassion, it would seem so.

You are all totally ignoring the glaringly obvious truth that a lot of money is wasted on bullshit and beaurocracy. A lot of people rip of the systems from the poorest members of society, right up to the richest. The only difference is the rich can cover their tracks and make it all look legit.

You can have your opinion about the welfare state, I'm not changing mine though.

I am confused about your comment re: insults, are you saying non insulting posts won't get through????

Anonymous said...

You are all totally ignoring the glaringly obvious truth that a lot of money is wasted on bullshit and beaurocracy

That's because it simply isn't true. Especially in NZ, there is little "waste" or "fat" to cut, and very little corruption.

The amount of tax revenue - $4Bn spent in total - let alone "wasted" - on "bullshit" and "beaurocracy" is absolutely tiny compared with the amount "wasted" on welfare - $50Bn.

If 10% of government spending was "waste" - a very high estimate - it is about one hundredth of the amount spent on benefits.

goodkiwimum said...

you are pulling figures out of your butt now. 21Bn on welfare of which only 2.9 is spent on solo parents

Anonymous said...

Education: 12.5 + Health: 12.7 + Welfare: 24.2 = 49.4Bn every year.

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/government/expenditure

set against that, however much waste is in the $4Bn core expenditure is almost non-existent.

Anonymous said...

Anyone can go here: http://tax.southgatelabs.com/
and see how their taxes are spent. But it all comes out basically the same: 2/3rds of your taxes go straight onto welfare, and cutting boutique ministers or "waste" makes basically no difference

goodkiwimum said...

well i got my info from here, which I think is far more credible than your little calculator =)

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2010/data

Michael said...

I'm not into this "me, me, me, I, I, I" philosophy that is bred into us now.

Really? If it were bred into us, that would make it not our responsibility.


I'm happy for my tax money to be supporting them.

Then you could just donate to a voluntary charity.

It shows how little people value raising children as an actual job, especially for one person to do alone.

people choose to raise kids. They took that on themselves. Not our problem to help them do it.

Michael said...

a tiny proportion of tax revenues is spent on families, which I beleive is a noble cause

whose money--taken from them by what means?

go said...

haha someone chose to raise you....? right? or were you just born an employed tax paying citizen...

This is my favourite saying:

"How far you get in life, depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of the weak...and the strong. Because someday in your life, you will have been all of these"

I used to be quite bigoted also, thankfully I woke up.

Good luck to all of you on your journeys and I do so terribly hope you will never need assistance of any kind - I can see it will be very hard for you to bear given your current attitude.

Kia Kaha

goodkiwimum said...

ooops that was supposed to be goodkiwimum

=)

mike250 said...

I think you will find most parents recieving a benefit, are hardworking honest people who never thought they would end up this way and have worked hard most of their life

source? and the methodology for that source too? Not just more hearsay.

A lot of people rip of the systems from the poorest members of society, right up to the richest. The only difference is the rich can cover their tracks and make it all look legit

that should tell you that the system is flawed then, and you've already admitted that the poor rip it off too. That doesn't fix the system.

Michael said...

"How far you get in life, depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of the weak...and the strong. Because someday in your life, you will have been all of these"

proof?

mike250 said...

I used to be quite bigoted also, thankfully I woke up.

so in another words it was just all a big whine and quiet tantrum and "I hate you."

How far you get in life, depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of the weak...and the strong. Because someday in your life, you will have been all of these

proof and relevance?

goodkiwimum said...

Michael - that is not even worthy of a reply

My experience of solo mothers is based on my experience, how many do you actually personally know, or are you assuming, like most of the posters here did about me.

Man you guys have some serious frustration to vent lol

Anonymous said...

You disapprove of MPs wages. You just ignore that fact that they have worked hard and made sacrifices to obtain their positions. People like you really make me angry, from your comments it seems that you have no idea how hard people work to reach their goals. Solo parents have the responsibilities of two parents and many are not equip to cope and consequently neglect their children. The taxpayer feels cheated they are paying to support children and their parents on the DPB yet increasing they have to cope with more crime in society and a raft of other costs to address bad upbringings.

I do not mean to be critical of all solo mothers, I am sure their are some who are wonderful parents but the DPB is also creating poverty and disfunction.

Gloria

goodkiwimum said...

I'm sick of all the nasty sweeping generalisations about solo parents, as far as I'm concerned none of you know, cos obviously you have never done it, otherwise you would never never say these things.

I can't be bothered with this, you guys were all probably schoolyard bullies as well. I'm glad I'm raising my kids to be better than that.

I'm stepping out of this now - please continue with all your bright ideas about how to eradicate one parent families, I'm sure you will feel much better when you are all richer as a result...

Warm and Loving said...

Is there a ‘Good Kiwi Dad’ anywhere in the frame or is this a case of immaculate conception?

gkm said...

ive actually used the term "parent" more than i have mother, read back and you will find im right.


assume assume assume, is all any of you have done - great job

Anonymous said...

Good kiwi mum - Warm and Loving's question is a very valid one.

For every child born, there's a father and a mother.

When we are discussing the issue of solo mothers (or "parents" if we're to be pc about it), we tend to forget the fathers.

Here's a novel idea on how to reduce the burden of raising kids if you're a solo mum - name the dad and have him help out.

Make declaring the father a condition for receiving welfare.

Then some of the cost of raising the kids can be covered by the father's child support payments.

In fact, make the mummy and daddy pay for all of the cost of raising kids.

That's what we responsible folk have to do. (as well as pay for yours)

Rufus

Spam said...

I responded Lindasy's comment that its not fair that some incomes are lower than dpb rates. I agree, but lets get wages higher.
If wages grow, do you honestly believe that there won't be calls to increase welfare accordingly?

Anonymous said...

Good on you goodkiwimum - deep down some of these people know you are right and at least one is a self-professed bullshit artist.

gkm said...

I never said solo mums (to exclude fathers), I was always pretty careful to say solo "parents"

Any child support paid by the non custodial parent goes to the government to pay for DPB, unless the non custodial is paying more than the DPB (the balance goes to other parent), or the other parent it working.

The DPB is only actually $270p/w, it is supplemented by accomodation allowance & family assistance. Which most working families are entitled to. Infact people earning up to $100k can claim some form of assistance, which compared to the $14k solo parents recieve is a little bit sinister in my opinion.

Not everyone can pull off working and raising children, it all depends on the level of support they recieve from family, friends and the non custodial parents, not to mention the employer. In an environment with no support it is extremely difficult and hard on the children. As it is with welfare, its not so different living a non welfare existance - no one really gives a shit.

I suggest if you guys have a problem with tax dollars and how they are spent, dig a little deeper. IRD, ACC, and WINZ (to name a few) are the most inneficient administrations I've ever seen in operation. A multinational corporation would fail under these conditions, but they are run on tax payer money, so they just keep throwing money at the bottomless pit.

But hey, what would I know, I'm just a baby factory, with no education, draining the country.